Błąd?

Evanlyn02

W książkach często są fragmenty nie związane z tamtym czasem np. w 7. tomie, kiedy Will czeka na wyzwolenie Halt mówi do niego: "To nie jest pokaz mody". A przecież w tamtych czasach pokazów mody nie było. Albo w 8. tomie ("Królowie Clonmelu") Will mówił coś o śpiącej królewnie, która czeka na księcia z bajki [czy] coś takiego, gdy przyszedł i powiedział do Horace'a, że strasznie kaszle. I jak miał tych 3 czeladników, to mówił o trollach które niszczą mury zamku. I nie było w tamtych czasach czegoś takiego o śpiącej królewnie ani żadnych trolli. Pewnie niektórzy z was powiedzą: "To co on niby miał napisać?" albo: "No i co z tego?" Ale to jest ważne. To tak samo, jakby napisać w książce o starożytnym Egipcie że ktoś mówi: "Ja to bym Endera na fejs nie zaprosił. A właśnie jutro robię melanż"*.

Napiszę do Jaguara, żeby Ci kupili słownik ortograficzny. A nuż się zlitują... A o liczebnikach porządkowych nawet się nie produkuję. Ileż można?! A te "tamte czasy" to średniowiecze, a ściślej rzecz ujmując czasy nań stylizowane.
Aha, i proszę nas nie obrażać. To, że się jest nowym na forum, nie znaczy, że można pisać wszystko.
*Poprawiłam te dwa zdania, bo, tak jak pozostałe, miały mnóstwo błędów. Aczkolwiek może to była taka stylizacja. Jak już używasz formy "fejs", to może i "e" w "robie" było zamierzone...?
P.

Shanta

Cóż, jest to pewien błąd jednak czasami po prostu nie ma co wstawić. Podobnie było w "Płonącym moście". Kiedy Gilan tłumaczył cel posłannictwa do Celtii, Will mówił że Halt i on gadają jakby po hiszpańsku (nie jest to dokładnie to co w książce, nie pamiętam cytatu). Yyyy... jasne. To w tym świecie była Hiszpania?

Mihex

Mówili pewnie po Iberyjsku (Iberion to państwo w świecie zwiadowców, półwysep iberyjski to półwysep na którym leży Hiszpania i Portugalia w naszym świecie.), a trolle może nie występowały, ale u nas trolle też nie istniały, ale ludziom w średniowieczu jakoś to nie przeszkadzało bo takie mity sobie wymyślili, trolle to nie wymysł naszych czasów, a czasów starożytnych.

Shanta

Hm... jest to jakaś teoria. Tylko, że wtedy powinno być że "gadali bo iberyjsku" a nie hiszpańsku. No ale faktycznie, półwysep taki jest więc stawiam tym razem na błąd w tłumaczeniu

Castagiro

Jest jedno małe ale, Evanlyn. To nie książka historyczna ani nie powieść o czasach prawdziwych. To wymyślony świat, w który autor mógł wkleić takie pojęcia jak "pokazy mody" lub inne. Weź pod uwagę, że tworząc świat pisarze wzorują się na naszym ale go nie kserują.

Arrys-san

skoro was to tak ciekawi to uwierzcie mi -- tłumacz polski na wiele sb pozwalał - od takich drobnostek do opuszczania pojedynczych rozdziałów... Radzę przeczytać ang wersję - naprawde warto

Ksssa

Raczej gdyby pojedyncze rozdziały usunął to by zepsuł bardzo fabułę itd. Co do czego jest parę tłumaczy. Inna sprawa nie każdy umie angielski. Jak byłbyś dobry przesłać jakiś kawałek, którego nie ma to uwierzę, ale na słowo to niezbyt.

Shanta

Ksssa

Właśnie! Jak przedstawi jakiś z tych fragmentów skoro taki mądry co do czego to się trochę zastanawiam gdzie wy macie jakieś spolszczone imiona? Ja tego nie zauważyłam i jak próbowałam znaleźć to raczej nigdzie tego nie znalazłam.

Tris

Ksssa, ja też nie zauważyłam spolszczenia imion. Łoł, a jeżeli tłumacz pominął rozdział, to... w sumie chyba mało możliwe jest.

Shanta

Ksssa

Takie coś rzeczywiście mogłam nie zauważyć, ale każdemu błędy się zdarzają Smile

Arrys-san

Okej zaraz wam wyślę. To jest w drugiej części kiedy Halt wyrusza na samodzielną misję z Alyss. Te rozdziały nie mają wpływu na fabułę, ale tłumacz nie powinien był ich usuwać
Podaję przykład usuniętego rozdziału. Sory jeżeli byl w książce ale go nie zauważyłam..

12

SIR MONTAGUE KEPT ALYSS WAITING FOR OVER AN HOUR BEFORE deigning to receive her.

Halt and Alyss waited in the anteroom to Montague’s office. Halt stood to one side, leaning impassively on his longbow. Montague was an oaf, he thought. As a Courier on official business Alyss should have been greeted without delay. Obviously aware of her youth, the Master of Cobram Keep was attempting to assert his own importance by treating her as an everyday messenger.

He watched the girl approvingly as she sat, straight-backed and erect, in one of the hard chairs in the anteroom. She appeared calm and unflustered in spite of the insult she was being offered. She had changed from her riding clothes when they were a few kilometers from the castle and she was now dressed in the simple but elegant white gown of a Courier. The bronze laurel branch pin, the symbol of her authority, fastened a short blue cape at her right shoulder.

For his part, Halt had left his distinctive mottled Ranger’s cloak folded on the pommel of Abelard’s saddle. His longbow and quiver, however, he retained. He never went anywhere without them.

Alyss glanced up at him and he nodded, almost imperceptibly, to her. Don’t let him make you angry. She returned the nod, acknowledging the message. Her hands, which were clenched into fists on her knees, slowly relaxed as she took several deep breaths.

This girl is very good, Halt thought.

Montague’s secretary had obviously been well briefed by his master. After peremptorily waving Alyss to a chair and leaving Halt to stand, he had busied himself with paperwork and resolutely ignored them—rising several times to take items in to the inner office. Finally, at the sound of a small bell tinkling from beyond the door, he looked up and gestured toward the office.

“You can go in now,” he said disinterestedly. Alyss frowned slightly. Protocol dictated that a Courier should be properly announced, but the man obviously had no intention of doing so. She rose gracefully and moved toward the door, Halt following. That got the secretary’s attention.

“You can wait here, forester,” he said rudely. Without the cloak, there was little to distinguish Halt from a yeoman. He was dressed in simple brown leggings, soft leather boots and a green surcoat. The double knife scabbard had apparently escaped the secretary’s notice. Or perhaps he didn’t realize its significance.

“He’s with me,” Alyss said. The unmistakable tone of authority in her voice stopped the man cold. He hesitated, then rose from behind the desk and moved toward Halt.

“Very well. But you’d better leave that bow with me,” he said, without quite the certainty that he had displayed earlier. He held out his hand for the bow, then met Halt’s eyes. He saw something very dangerous there and he actually flinched.

“All right, all right. Keep it if you must,” he muttered. He backed away, more than a little flustered, retreating behind the secure bulk of his desk. Halt opened the door for Alyss, then followed her as she entered the office.

Montague of Cobram was seated at a large oaken table that served as a desk. He was studying a letter and didn’t look up from it as Alyss approached. Halt was willing to bet that the letter was about something totally unimportant. The man was playing silly mind games, he thought.

But Alyss was up to the challenge. She stepped forward and produced a heavy scroll from her sleeve, slapping it briskly down on the table before Montague. He started in surprise, looking up. Halt hid a smile.

“Alyss Mainwaring, Sir Montague, Courier from Redmont Castle. My credentials.”

Montague wasn’t just an oaf, Halt thought. He was a fop as well. His satin doublet was formed in alternating quarters of scarlet and gold. His reddish blond hair was left in overlong curls, framing a somewhat chubby face with slightly bulging blue eyes and a petulant mouth. He was of average height, but of some what more than average weight. He would be passably handsome, Halt supposed, if he could shed a few kilos in weight, but the man obviously liked to indulge himself. He recovered now from his momentary surprise and leaned back in his chair, adopting a languid, slightly disapproving tone.

“Good heavens, girl, you can’t come in here throwing your credentials on the desk like that! Don’t they teach good manners at Redmont Castle these days?”

He looked distastefully at the scroll and shoved it to one side.

“They teach protocol, Sir Montague,” Alyss replied, very evenly. “And it requires that you examine and acknowledge my credentials before we proceed.”

“Yes, yes, yes,” Montague said, waving a dismissive hand at the scroll. “Take it as read. Take it as read. Now, girl, what brings you here?”

Halt interjected quietly, “The correct form of address, Sir Montague, is ‘Lady Alyss.’”

Montague looked at Halt in genuine surprise, as if he considered him some lower form of life who lacked the ability of speech.

“Is that so, forester?” he said. “And what might your name be?”

Alyss went to speak, but a warning glance from Halt stopped her. He replied, still in the same quiet tone: “Some people call me Arratay, Sir Montague. It’s Gallican,” he added mildly.

Montague raised his eyebrows in mock surprise. “Gallican, you say? How exotic! Well, Master Arratay, perhaps you could leave the talking to me and young Alyss here, would that suit you?”

Halt shrugged and Montague took the movement for assent.

“Wonderful.” Then, dismissing Halt, he turned his attention back to Alyss. “So, sweetheart, what do you have for me? A letter perhaps? Some self-important note from Fat Baron Arald, I’ll be bound?”

There were two small spots of color in Alyss’s cheeks, the only outward sign of the anger that was building up inside her at the man’s offhanded manner. She produced Nigel’s heavy linen envelope from the satchel she wore at her side and offered it across the desk.

“I have an official legal position, prepared under Baron Arald’s seal. He requests that you study it.”

Montague made no move to take the letter.

“Set it down. I’ll look at it when I have time.”

“The Baron requests that you look at it now, sir. And give me your answer.”

Montague rolled his eyes to heaven and took the envelope. “Oh, very well, if it will make you happy.” He sliced the envelope and took out the sheet of parchment inside it, skimming through it, muttering to himself, “Yes…yes…seen it…heard it before…nonsense…rubbish…nonsense.”

He set the page down and pushed it away from him, shaking his head wearily.

“When will you people learn? You can send me all the letters you like. The fact remains, Cobram is an independent hold, owing no allegiance to Redmont Fief. The treaty makes that very clear.”

“I’m instructed to draw your attention to Items Three and Five in the letter, sir. And paragraph nine as well. They make it quite clear that the wording of the treaty is faulty and your claim to independence is totally spurious,” Alyss replied. And now, for the first time, Montague shed the air of world-weariness that he’d assumed. He stood angrily.

“Spurious!” he shouted. “Spurious? Who the devil are you, a little girl in a grown-up’s dress, to come in here insulting me and saying my claim is spurious? How dare you?”

Alyss stood her ground, unmoved by his sudden anger.

“I repeat, sir, you are requested to read those items,” she said quietly. Instead, Montague threw the letter down on the desk between them.

“And I refuse!” he shouted. Then his eyes narrowed. “I know who’s behind this. I see the hand of that sour-faced shrew Lady Pauline here!”

Now Alyss’s own anger flared. “You will speak respectfully of Lady Pauline, sir!” she warned him. But Montague was too angry to stop.

“I’ll speak of her, all right! I’ll tell you this. She’s a woman meddling in a man’s world, where she has no place. She should have found a husband years ago and raised a brood of squalling babies. Surely there’s a deaf and half-blind man somewhere who would have taken her.”

“Sir!” said Alyss, her own voice rising. “You are going too far!”

“Is that right, sweetheart?” Montague replied sarcastically. “Well, let me give you some advice. Get away from that shrill, pinch-faced witch while you still have time. Find a husband and learn to cook. That’s all women are good for, girl. Cooking and raising the babies!”

Halt stepped forward before Alyss could reply. “The correct form of address,” he repeated quietly, “is not ‘girl’ or ‘sweetheart.’ It is ‘Lady Alyss.’ You will show respect for the laurel branch that this Courier wears. And you will show respect for Lady Pauline as well.”

For a moment, Montague was too startled to reply. First a girl, now a common forester had told him how to behave!

“Oh, is that so?” he raged. “I’ll show you respect!” He picked up the letter and tore it in half. Then he did the same to the scroll bearing Alyss’s credentials. “There’s my respect! Now get out!”

Very carefully, Halt set his longbow to one side, leaning it against a chair. Alyss raised a warning hand.

“Halt, don’t get into trouble on my behalf,” she said. But Halt looked at her and shook his head.

“Lady Alyss, this…fop…has insulted you, your Baron, your mentor and the Diplomatic Corps as a whole. He has shown absolute disregard for the laurel branch you wear. And by destroying your credentials, he has committed a crime that warrants a jail term.”

Alyss considered his words for a second or two. Then she nodded. Montague had been more than rude to her. His behavior was totally beyond acceptance.

“You’re right,” she said. “Carry on.”

But Montague had heard nothing after the word “Halt.” The entire kingdom knew the legendary Ranger’s reputation and the Keeper of Cobram paled now and stepped back as the grim-faced figure came toward him.

“But…you said…you said your name was…” He struggled to remember it. Halt smiled at him. It was the smile of a wolf.

“Arratay? Yes, well, more correctly, Arretez. It’s Gallican for ‘Halt.’ My pronunciation has never been good.”

His hand shot forward and locked in the scarlet-and-gold collar of the other man’s doublet. The satin tore momentarily, then Halt gained a firmer grip and dragged the struggling knight across the table toward him.

Montague was taller and heavier than Halt. But Halt’s hands, arms, shoulders and back were conditioned by years of drawing the massive longbow, with its pull weight of sixty kilos. The thousands of arrows he had shot, over and over again, had turned his muscles into steel cord. Montague was dragged off his feet, hoisted across his own desk.

“The question is,” said Halt, glancing at Alyss, “what should we do with him?” She hesitated, then that wonderful smile spread over her face.

“I wonder,” she said. “Does this castle have a moat?”

Arrys-san

“I suppose you’ll be leaving with the army soon?” she said after a few minutes, and when Halt nodded, she continued: “I’ll miss you. How will I ever carry out diplomatic missions without someone to throw unpleasant nobles out the window?”

“I’ll miss you too.” Halt smiled. And he realized that he meant it. He enjoyed being around young people—enjoyed their energy, their freshness, their idealism. “You’re a good influence on a jaded, old, bad-tempered Ranger.”

“You’ll soon have Will back to keep you busy,” she said. “You really miss him, don’t you?”

The Ranger nodded. “More than I realized,” he said. Alyss urged her horse close beside his and leaned over to kiss him on the cheek.

“That’s for Will when you see him.” A ghost of a smile touched Halt’s face.

“You’ll understand if I don’t pass it on in person?” he said. Alyss smiled and leaned over to kiss him again.

“And that’s for you, you jaded, bad-tempered old Ranger.”

A little surprised by her own impulsiveness, she urged her horse ahead of him. Halt touched one hand to his cheek and looked after the slim blond figure.

If I were twenty years younger… he began.

Then he sighed and had to be honest with himself. Make that thirty years, he thought.

A to jest mój ulubiony fragment z tych które opuścił

Ksssa

Dobra! Jeśli to prawdziwe opowiadanie to tłumaczowi należy się solidny kopniak w dupę! To jest boskie! Very Happy

Nawet Alyss jest tu jakaś ,,normalna''.

Codo czego zastanawia mnie tylko fakt skąd ja to znam... a może to było gdzieś ukryte w książce? Nie wiem. Może to tylko jakiś fanfick?

Arrys-san

Nieee... Kupiłam książkę oryginalną po angielsku w Anglii i byłam zdziwiona jak to przeczytałam.. potem ściągnęłam ebooka żeby się upewnić..

Ksssa

Nie wiem czy to ja mam się powiesić, czy może lepiej zagrozić tą karą tłumaczowi jak zaraz nie każe dodać tych rozdziałów do wydań, które będą dopiero drukowane... Jak można w ogóle skracać książkę? Przecież później J.Flanagan może coś dopisać lub wspomnieć o tym wątku i co? Eh...

PS E book zapewne tez po angielsku?

Arrys-san

Tak, po angielsku. Powiesić tłumacza!

Felek

To jest niemożliwe! JAKI PRAWEM ja się pytam, JAKIM PRAWEM!?!?! Czytam sobie jeszcze sobie myślę że ładnie przetłumaczone wchodzę na forum i BACH! dowiaduję się o usuniętych rozdziałach!

Tris

Ja się pytam JAK można usunąć całe rozdziały?! To jest wgl bezczelność. Tłumacz beznadziejny.

Ksssa

A mnie cały czas zastanawia sprawa fanficków, bo ja... GDZIEŚ TO JUŻ CZYTAŁAM! To raczej nie możliwe skoro nie ma tego w książce gdyż pamiętam WSZYSTKIE fanficki, które czytałam.

Tris

Ksssa, czyli myślisz, że to ff?

Ksssa

Trudno powiedzieć. Skoro nie umieścili tego w książce mają motyw. najłatwiej było by spytać wydawców. Z tym to do adminów już powinniśmy pisać Smile

Karel

Tłumacz pewnie uznał że książka za gruba, a tekst nieważny i slaby więc pominął jeden, świetny kawałek. Powinszować tłamaczowi.

Tris

W takim układzie tłumacz się nie zna. Im grubsza książka tym lepsza. Chyba, że to nudna lektura szkolna, to im chudsza tym lepsza Smile

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